Bhaagvat Puraan | Skandh-11
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Skandh 11: Page 19 of 24
Uddhav Jee asked - "Hey Prabhu, How many Tattwa (elements) are told by Rishi? You counted 9 + 11 + 5 + 3 totaling 28 Tattwa. But some tell 26 Tattwa, then some tell 25 Tattwa, some tell 7 and some tell 9 Tattwa. Some tell 6, some tell 4 and some tell 11 only. In the same way some Muni tell 17, some tell 16, and some tell 13 Tattwa. Why do Rishi Muni tell us their numbers so different?"
Krishn said - "Hey Uddhav Jee! What Vedagya (who know Ved) Braahman say all numbers are right, because all Tattwa reside in one another. "What you say is not right", and "what I say is right", it is because all do not understand my powers - Sat, Raj and Tam Gun and their Vritti, so whatever they say, they consider it right. Because of the Kshobh in Gun, all this confusion has appeared and this is the topic of the learned people [not of ordinary people]. When Indriyaan are under control and mind is peaceful then this confusion also goes away and with it go all discussions also. Because these Tattwa are overlapping that is why speaker tells whatever the number of Tattwa which he thinks right. He mixes Kaarya (result) in Kaaran (cause) or Kaaran in Kaarya, and tells that number. Several Tattwa exist in some other Tattwa also. Since there is no hard and fast rule that which Tattwa is under which Tattwa, so whosoever says whatever, is accepted.
Uddhav Jee, Who have accepted 26 Tattwa, they say that Jeev includes A-Vidyaa since the beginning and thus cannot recognize himself. He needs somebody to get that power. Thus Prakriti's Kaarya-Kaaran 24 Tattwa, 25th is Purush (Jeev) and 26th is Eeshwar should be accepted
Whosoever recognize 25 Tattwa, they say that Jeev and Eeshwar are exactly the same (there is no difference of even of one Anu between them), therefore they should not be considered as two different entities. As far as Gyaan is considered, Sattwaatmikaa is the Gun (attribute) of Prakriti. Equilibrium of the three Gun is Prakriti, therefore the three Gun are not of Aatmaa, but are of Prakriti [only they are the cause of the existence, Creation and Pralay, therefore Gyaan is not the Gun of Aatmaa, but of Prakriti]. In this reference only, Sat Gun is Gyaan, Rajo Gun is Karm, and Tamo Gun is A-Gyaan. And Eeshwar is the Kaal who creates Kshobh in these Gun and Sootra ie Mahat-Tattwa is the nature. [Therefore both 25, and 26 numbers are correct]
Hey Uddhav Jee, [If we recognize three Gun separately from Prakriti, as we should be looking at their Creation and Pralaya, then the number of Tattwa automatically becomes 28 (Tattwa) and that is logical. Other than these three, 25 Tattwa are: [Purush, Prakriti, Mahat-Tattwa, Ahankaar, Aakaash, Vaayu, Tej, Jal and Prithvi [9 are these]. Ears, skin, eyes, nose, tongue [5 Gyaan Indriyaan]; speech, hands, feet, reproductive organ, anus [5 Karm Indriyaan] and one mind [which is both Gyaanendriya as well as Karmendriya. Thus total 11 Indriyaan, and 5 pleasures of 5 Gyaan Indriyaan (sound, touch, seeing, taste, smell). Thus there are 3 + 9 + 11 + 5 = 28 Tattwa. Five actions which are done through 5 Karm Indriyaan are working, walking, speaking, excreting, and urinating; they do not add to Tattwa's number. They are only another form of Karm Indriyaan.
In the beginning of the Creation, only Prakriti was there in Kaarya (11 Indriyaan and Panch Bhoot) and Kaaran (Mahat-Tattwa etc). Only I, with the help of three Gun, take three stages of the Universe - Existence, Creation and Destruction. Purush is only the witness or seer of Prakriti and its stages. Mahat-Tattwa etc causes get the power from Purush and join together to Create Brahmaand (Universe) with the help and powers of Prakriti.
Whosoever recognize the number of Elements as 7 (Tattwa), they consider only Aakaash, Vaayu, Agni, Jal and Prithvi, these 5 Bhoot, 6th Jeev and 7th Paramaatmaa; because body, Indriyaan and Praan etc are created only through the Panch Bhoot [that is why they do not count them separately]
Whosoever recognize the number of Elements as 6 (Tattwa), they say that there are 5 Bhoot and the 6th one is Paramaatmaa. Paramaatmaa creates the body with Panch Bhoot and then enters that body in Jeev form. [According to them, Jeev and Paramaatmaa are one, and body etc join as Panch Bhoot].
Who recognize only 4 Tattwa as cause, they say that Fire, Water, Prithvi are born from Aatmaa [Aatmaa, Aakaash, Earth] and all materials of world are born from them only. And they include all Kaarya only in them.
Whoever tells the number of Elements as 17 Tattwa, they count them thus - Panch Bhoot (5), Panch Tanmaatraayen (5), Gyaan Indriyaan (5), One mind, and One Aatmaa.
Whosoever tell the number of Elements as 16 (Tattwa), they tell them in the same way, except they consider mind and Aatmaa as one.
Whosoever tell the number of Tattwa as 13 (Tattwa), they say: 5 Bhoot, 5 Gyaan Indriyaan, One mind, One Jeev Aatmaa, and One Param Aatmaa.
Whosoever recognize them as 11 (Tattwa), they tell: 5 Bhoot, 5 Gyaan Indriyaan, and One Aatmaa.
Whosoever tell their number as 9 Tattwa, they tell: 5 Bhoot; mind, Buddhi, Ahankaar these 8 Prakriti and 9th one - the Purush.
Thus everybody recognizes them differently and they all are correct. In fact who are Tattwa-Gyaanee, they don't see anything wrong in any one.
Uddhav Jee said - "Although by form, Prakriti and Purush look so alike that they don't look different. Then how to differentiate between them? Kindly clear this matter." Krishn said - "There is a big difference between Prakriti and Purush; and body and Aatmaa. In this Praakrit world, birth and death, growth and diminishing etc Vikaar (attributes, or form, or impurities) are always there. Its main reason is that these are all created by Kshobh in Gun. My Maayaa is Tri-Gunee and she creates many kinds of natures through her Sat, Raj and Tam Gun. Although its extension is very broad, still this impure creation can be divided in three parts: Adhyaatm, Adhi-Daiv, Adhi-Bhoot;
For example, our eye Indriya is Adhyaatm, its subject Roop is Adhi-Bhoot, Soorya's Ansh located in eye is Adhi-Daiv. All the three work together, that is why they all three are related to each other. But Soorya Mandal (Solar System) located in the sky is free from all three, because it is self-sustained. In the same way Aatmaa is also the root cause of three divisions, still it is beyond them, because it is self-sustained. In the same way, Aatmaa, the root cause of the above mentioned differences, is their root cause, is their witness and is beyond them.
From Prakriti is created Mahat-Tattwa and from Mahat-Tattwa is created Ahankaar. Thus this Ahankaar is a Vikaar of Prakriti created from the Kshobh in Gun. Ahankaar is of three types - Saatwik, Raajasik, and Taamasik. Ahankaar is the root cause of variety of A-Gyaan and Creation. Aatmaa is Gyaan Roop. Neither it is related to these things, nor it is debatable. It exists or doesn't exist, it is Sa-Gun or Nir-Gun, it is truth or untruth etc, whatever debates are there about it all have their root cause as "to differentiate". There is no doubt that these debates are useless, still who do not know Me/themselves, they cannot be free from this debate."
Uddhav Jee asked - "Bhagavan, The Jeev, who are far from you, take birth and die in various higher and lower Yoni (species) according to their good and bad Karm. Now the question is, that how it is possible for this extensive Aatmaa to go from one body to another body, to do Karm as a non-doer, and to take birth and die as an ever-existing (Nitya) thing. Who do not have the knowledge of Aatm-Gyaan, they cannot even think this properly, thus knower of this knowledge are rare to get because most people are lost in your Maayaa, therefore only You can tell me its secret."
Krishn said - "Human mind is the collection of his Karm Sanskaar. According to those Sanskaar, he has his five Indriyaan to enjoy pleasures. This is called Ling Shareer (Subtle Body). This goes from one body to another body and from one Lok to another Lok according to his Karm. Aatmaa is completely separate from this Ling Body. It does not go anywhere, but when it considers itself as Ling Shareer and feels Ahankaar in it, then it feels as if it is also going and coming. Mind depends on Karm. So it starts thinking about the pleasures experienced by Indriyaan through Karm and immediately gets busy with them. And it gets involved with them, so much so that it starts forgetting to find out about itself and does not remember even its previous body. To forget about the body, for any reason, is called death.
O Uddhav, When this Jeev accepts any body with the feeling of "I", the same is called as birth, as there are dream and waking situations. As this Jeev existing in the present body, doesn't remember his previous body, in the same way Jeev doesn't remember the previous dream. Kaal's nature is very subtle, one cannot know it. Bodies take birth and die every moment because of that only. Because of that subtleness these births and deaths are not seen. As the flame of lamp, flow of river, conditions of flowers of trees change continuously because of Kaal, in the same way bodies' conditions and age etc also change continuously.
(1) Conception, (2) growth of fetus, (3) birth, (4) childhood, (5) adolescence, (6) youth, (7) mature age, (8) old age, and (9) death - these nine stages are of this body. This body is different from Jeev, and these stages are according to his previous life, but by ignorance he considers them his own. Sometimes he ignores them also when he gets some Gyaan. A father should know about his birth with the birth of his son, and a son should know about his death with the death of his father. Seer of these birth and death is not this body which takes birth and dies. As the wheat and barley are sowed and harvested when their time comes, but the person who does that is different from those plants, in the same way the witness to the stages of body is different from the body.
A-Gyaanee (ignorant) people don't think about Prakriti and Aatmaa in this way. In fact they do not separate them out from themselves, that is why they have to take births in this world repeatedly. When this ignorant Jeev wanders in this world according to his Karm, he goes to Rishi Lok, Dev Lok by attachment in Saatwik Karm, in human and Asur Yoni by attachment in Raajasik Karm, and in Bhoot Pret Yoni by attachment in Taamasik Karm. As a person copies a singing or dancing man, in the same way when this Jeev sees the attributes of Buddhi (intellect), he also starts getting interested in them, otherwise Aatmaa's nature is eternal, pure intellect, and free. Because of this involvement he always thinks about pleasures and who thinks about them in spite of being untruth, his cycle of birth and death is never over.
That is why O Dear Uddhav, Never enjoy these pleasures, whether worldly people insult you, make a mockery of you, beat you, snatch your living, or do anything with you, because they are only A-Gyaanee (ignorant), they don't know about Paramaarth. Therefore Gyaanee person has to take care of himself. One has to use his inner sight to save himself."
Uddhav Jee said - "I consider this type of ill behavior of other people very intolerable, so tell me the way in the way I can follow your advice."
Created by Sushma Gupta on 3/9/02
Updated on 06/09/11